Nolan Martin :
Hey everyone! Thanks for joining us on the NEGOTIATEx podcast. We are continuing our conversation with Ovul Sezer. If you haven’t already checked out part A of this show. Be sure to do that first. Let’s jump in the conversation with Ovul.
NM :
You know, identifying impression mismanagement requires someone to be very self aware. So I’m wondering like how my increased self awareness help us better navigate professional situations and relationships. And how does someone go about becoming more self aware?
Exploring The Nuances Of Self-Awareness & Impression Management In Social Interactions [00:29]
Ovul Sezer :
So first of all, I take it as a compliment. Thank you so much that you call me self aware. That’s very generous of you.
Aram Donigian :
Was that some humble bragging just now?
OS :
Sure, just like that. You know my ways right now. I just insert here and there. Well, I study compliments too. So that’s another fascinating area. Or I study feedback giving too, like how do we talk to each other about each other, which is also fascinating. And we can get to that if you’d like. But, you know, whether we’re self aware or not, I, again, call my situation more like it’s welcome to my “self paranoia” rather than self awareness, because I mean, I bet even after today, this is my prediction and you can tell me, I told you so, or something like that later on.
I think you’re going to notice more humblebrags from now on, at least for a few more days. Or you’ll be like, oh my God, oops, did I just humble brag, which happens to me all the time. So it does create a little bit of a social interaction paranoia. With self awareness, you know, now the research on this is mixed.
Well, there hasn’t been any training about impression mismanagement. But if we go back to Danny Kahneman and Ms.Tversky who identified these shortcuts that are cognitive function and that, you know, like things like anchoring things like confirmation bias. Like I’m sure again, some of our listeners, and I’m sure you do know about these things.
So these are individual cognitive biases and there has been research that shows that even being aware of them doesn’t necessarily solve the problem long term. Because again, these are motivated behaviors. These impressionist behaviors are very motivated too, but they’re not necessarily super conscious behaviors.
Meaning that, look, you know, when I’m going to humble brag, I don’t necessarily make the perfect humble brag in my brain and then come up to my boss and look like just blurted out the humble brag. It’s usually coming from my motivation to look good, but I don’t necessarily do it very consciously. Being self aware can provide a little remedy, but I’m not sure if it would solve and this is based on, again, the research on the more behavioral econ biases.
So I haven’t done it. I would love to train people not to humble brag and see what they do in the following week. But I think it requires, I think studying impression mismanagement requires being, there’s this new research that I like very much and it’s coming from team researchers or group researchers. It’s more about being attuned. I think it’s also based on a little bit of psychotherapy. If you’re into any clinical psychology research, I find it fascinating and I should know more about it.
But being attuned is not just being a good listener, not just being a good responder, but also understanding the emotional tone of the conversation you’re in and understanding where the other side is coming from. Some of the researchers in social psychology also have that is perspective taking some people focus on empathy. Like there are lots of different constructs that are related to the same phenomenon. I think wherever we are in a conversation, either face to face or LinkedIn, being attuned is very important and it’s a bit one higher step than self aware, right?
It’s not necessarily, oh, I know who I am. I mean, that’s a great quality of your self aware that’s amazing, but it’s, I’m talking more about what does the other side aim or want to get out of this conversation or what’s the feel like that’s why sometimes we would see even these big name executives doing something and then we would be like, oh, that was such a tone deaf response because they were not their audience.
AD :
Yeah. As you’re talking, I’m thinking about Daniel Goleman’s work around emotional intelligence. And what I heard was it certainly starts with some awareness. That’s not enough for the long term. This idea of being attuned is really how is the way in which we’re engaging landing for you, I’ve got to connect with that.
The emotional tone of the conversation, being able to practice some perspective taking that feels like really hard work. Are there ways people can intentionally practice, especially that latter piece around being more attuned to others?
Embracing Patience & Presence In Building Reputation & Managing Impressions [04:21]
OS :
Sure. Absolutely. I think here comes the, where the focus of our conversation is.
And I think at some point in our lives, we all have been guilty of this. You know, even when we are listening, we would be more interested in what should be my next response, right? Even when, when we are in a work meeting, we’re usually creating what we’re going to say such a human thing to do. I’m not criticizing anybody who does that.
I am someone who does that too. When I catch myself, I try to sort of get out of that mindset. I’m like, okay, don’t worry about your response just now. Let’s try to really, really focus on this conversation on what’s going on. And that same thing goes for, I mean, we are talking about a little bit more general about conversations right now, but that same thing goes for impression management as well.
I think most of the time. Again, we are in this attention economy. It’s everything is competitive. We are also trying to carve out our own space to talk about our expertise or the great things we have done. And I think sometimes we take these shortcuts to talk about our competence too much. Oh, I did this. I did that.
Maybe competence is something that we signal in the long run. Maybe, you know, we don’t have to do it in like a two minute interaction or just one post on LinkedIn. Maybe we just like creating what we’re going to say, maybe we need to create our image as well. So reputation, I would say, is a more long term game.
I think one mistake that we all do, we focus on too much on the shortcuts and short term games. Let me tell you about what I did. Let me share that other accomplishment, other degree, other paper. Again, as academics, we talk about papers. This comes up a lot, but feeling a little more in peace. and slow and taking the longer way to convey your reputation, I would say is a much better way.
I totally agree, being attuned is harder. It requires practice and it requires more like, okay, I’m not going to necessarily focus on what I’m going to say in this little short five minutes, but I’m going to really talk about my reputation as a whole is a more long term game.
AD :
I would love you to say a little bit more this idea around reputation I think is so powerful as I listen to you talking we want to appear smart competent. We want to be likable, right? We know that likability is a factor when it comes to influencing others biases. A like-me bias tends to show up quite a bit as we try to influence others. So these things are really important. I will often talk about in negotiation, but also leadership classes, this pathetic need to look good that we all possess, right?
That we really, we, right. And it just sometimes gets in the way of. not only learning, right, my ability to learn because I block out things that feel threatening, but also just my ability to connect genuinely and authentically with somebody. So how do we manage this? I mean, I think that the essence, how can I be more likable without alienating you?
Navigating The Complex Interplay Of Competence & Likability In Social Dynamics [07:05]
OS :
Yeah, absolutely. It’s also, you know, another thing that you said, and I like said, we all have this pathetic need. It’s so true, but we’re all in this together. So I also don’t want any of us to feel bad about this, you know, because sometimes people would say, Oh, I don’t care about what others think. I understand and that looks cool. But I think to some extent, we all care about what others think we have to, because we are a human being. We’re part of society.
So the thing about liking and competence, and I’m going to give you more strategic things that we can all do to be more liked with one of the things that make it even harder, even more complex is being liked and respected at the same time is also hard. That’s why strategies like humble bragging exists, right? Because If you think about it, the strategies that get us to liking or looking smart, they are in complete conflict with each other. So if I want to look likable, I should agree with you and I should smile.
But if I’m a new boss and if I want to assert my authority and look very competent and smart, I’ll probably a little bit, you know, I won’t smile as much probably, and I will probably won’t agree with everything. Right? I will be like, I’m not sure, you know, you’re a little harder to impress. Or you would brag if you want to impress someone, but that’s certainly not a likability key at all. You know, it wouldn’t get you to do likability. So this is called the self promotion paradox in the literature. It’s a paradox. The moment you look more competent, you lose on the likability.
The moment you look very likable and warm, and amazing. People trust you and they want to be friends with you, but they don’t necessarily think you’re a super smart scientist or you’re their boss. So there’s that dilemma. One thing though, even though these two dimensions warmth, competence, some researchers call it agency convenience.
Some researchers call it intellectual desirability versus social desirability. These things that are the things that we want in all sorts of relationships like at workplace, I want to look competent, but I also want to be very likable at home with my friends I definitely want to be super likable and work, but I also want to cross as smart But we know that warmth is a little more quicker.
Warmth judgements, I mean likability judgements come a little quicker than competent students. Like when we meet somebody for the first time, we care about how trustworthy they are, how nice they are. Some of the things that get us there, and we can also talk about what’s the best bragging strategies, maybe you ask about that too.
But if you want to sort of be very likable, I mean people obviously love flattery because we would validate them. People really care about sincerity and being genuine. In fact, that’s something that I try to emphasize in my classes. Anytime I teach my students as well, because you know, we all have that person who sometimes people would brag.
We would be like, Oh, you do you, you go girl, you know, we would be very happy for them because again, it’s going to look like a very genuine brag. So there’s something about being sincere. In fact, in bragging research, sorry, I’m jumping from one topic to another, but the research is fascinating in this area.
In fact, emotion researchers who study pride, which is very related to bragging. And it’s a fascinating emotion because it’s a self conscious emotion. When we feel pride, even in developmental psychology, when a kid feels pride for the first time, that’s when they are aware that somebody else is looking at them. It’s a very, very self conscious thing.
And with pride, researchers have identified two types of pride, authentic pride versus hubristic pride. So when it’s hubristic, it’s more like giving the vibes of I’m better than you, or I’m like, look at me, me, me, I’m doing great, which is very common in social media, by the way. Whereas the authentic pride, and sometimes I see example of this, this too, and I’m like, yes, this sounds great.
Authentic pride is more about how hard somebody works, or maybe it was a teamwork, maybe they would brag, but also do it with gratitude. So these are all great strategies for coming across as also a likable person without necessarily sacrificing on the competence dimension.
So people care about if you validate them, so compliments work. It’s a different side of the equation, but if you’re talking about yourself doing it authentically, being genuine and smiling and things like that works a lot. So in general, being an other oriented person makes you likable, right? If you consider others somehow in your either brag or in your interactions.
People really respond to that. People are like, Oh, that’s a good teammate. Yes. Maybe they are bragging with their posts, but we see that they’re also really nice and really sweet. It is a better way to brag as well.
NM :
That’s what I was going to ask you. So you mentioned all these good bragging strategies. What do we do for interviewing for a job or meeting a new client, customer for the first time? It feels like humblebrags is what you’re supposed to do. So what should I be doing differently?
Redefining Self-Promotion: Embracing Authenticity & Strategic Engagement In Professional Settings [11:49]
OS :
Yeah. Oh, I should say humblebrags is not what you’re supposed to do. Straightforward.
NM :
It feels like I should.
OS :
Oh, you’re saying from the perspective.
NM :
Yeah, from my perspective. So what should I be doing better?
OS :
So number one, don’t do the humblebrag. That’s one thing I would say. There are different studies. Like we know, for instance, one thing that we find in our research. And that’s recent. That’s also a published work. It’s just published this year. So here’s my brag about my recent publication.
AD :
We’ll let you get away with it.
OS :
Thank you. Thank you. So we found that if people talk about their journey instead of just their outcome and success, it’s much more effective because it makes you look humble. And journey, meaning what are some of the challenges you face? Because again, in a job interview or in any networking session, when you’re trying to impress the other person in a short amount of time, we usually understand when we talk about our CV, right?
We’re like, oh, I led this team. I was a director here. I graduated from this school. I got this degree. And it feels like a list of accomplishments. These are still impressive. But if you add some sort of story where you can talk about your journey and journey needs to focus on how it led to some growth, right?
How it took you from point A to point B, then people respond to that much, much better because you convey your humility along with your success. So that’s one thing we can do. There’s also research that shows people really like it when some other person asks for their advice. I mean, I’m not sure if it’s doable in an interview, but it can definitely be done in any other work setting.
Like imagine you’re trying to impress your mentor, your supervisor, your boss. Like if you ask for their advice, people really love that because all of us think, Oh, smart people ask for my advice. Asking questions is a great way to build more of a relationship. And I think going back to being attuned, going back to this mistake of focusing too much on your answer or your response. If we signal curiosity about the other side, if we ask them questions, if we let them talk, people respond to that very favorably. And I think the best way to brag, and again, this is like, we have to be a little more strategic about this one particular tactic I’m going to list.
Still one of the best ways to brag is if someone else does it for you, you know, if someone else says, Oh, she’s great. He’s awesome. He’s amazing. Then you don’t get to face any consequence of being a braggart because someone else is doing it for you. On top of it, that also creates some curiosity about you, right?
The other, the person who hears about you is probably googling you or looking at your work. So finding a wing person for our bragging efforts is also quite important. So from now on, all three of us should do that.
AD :
And in those strategies, one thing I’m hearing is need for a lot of preparation. This isn’t just something you do off the cuff, but there’s preparation involved when you’re talking about getting curious and asking for advice and even having someone else do it for you.
OS :
True. Some, at least maybe again, going back to some awareness, some prep. Some owning of that conversation and social interaction, rather than being paralyzed by the anxiety of it, because we all, nobody likes to network.
Nobody likes to go to a job interview and being evaluated. You’re always, you know, that that’s a cognitively hard thing, but rather than focusing on that, maybe being a little, as you said, I think if you’re a little prepared, if you’re like, I’m just going to have a great conversation right now, because I’m going to make the other person feel very valuable and heard, that’s a good start to make a good impression.
NM :
Ovul, you mentioned compliments and feedback as two other areas that you’ve researched. What have you learned through your research and what are some actual tips to make both feel natural and effective?
How Compliments Influence Behavior & Interaction Dynamics [15:33]
OS :
I think what we learned about compliments is confirming or finding extra evidence for the past research that people love compliments. It’s amazing how we respond to compliments. Actually, one of my favorite research coming from maybe early 2010 is like, it’s amazing, even 2010 is like 15 years ago. Oh my goodness. It’s crazy. Time passes so quickly.
So with one of my favorite papers from that line of research is people even respond to insincere flattery, which is crazy to think about, right? That this is coming from marketing research. And basically this paper showed that like the experiment was something like this. I’m just going to describe it so that also our listeners can understand the methodologies that we use. So even though this wasn’t my paper, this is other researchers, but this was more, I believe it should be Sengupta and Chen.
And I believe the paper is 2010. If my memory is correct, I’m going to congratulate myself. Very sorry. And I apologize. Basically what they did is that they created two different ads for a new store in a neighborhood and one group of people received a very neutral ad on paper, which said, we are contacting you because we are the new store. Come to our opening on Saturday, check out our clothes and stuff like that.
The other group of people received an ad that says we’re contacting you because you’re so stylish. What’s so funny is that the moment these people get this ad, they are saying, oh, they’re trying to sell me stuff. That’s why they’re giving me these compliments, but one week later, this group is still more likely to go back to that store, buy from that store.
Again, the likelihood is even higher. I study these things on any time I’m trying to buy something. If the salesperson tells me, oh, yellow looks great on you. I’m like, oh, really? That’s amazing. You know, I’m immediately falling for it. So compliments are extremely powerful. So if you want to motivate someone, you can definitely give a compliment.
AD :
If I may, I just want to tell Nolan how sharp he’s looking today. And it’s been a dynamic interview so far. You’re really doing great.
OS :
There you go. When we look at the feedback settings, sometimes we find that people who have more status concerns, they wouldn’t necessarily be very generous with their compliments, but instead they would do something we call backhanded compliments.
So it’s like, oh, you are. You know, this is good for a first try, or you’re funny for a woman, or your English is good for an international, which is, I don’t agree with that. I think my English is great, right? This is fishing for a compliment. Now it’s all good.
NM :
It’s awesome. Your English is so good.
OS :
Thank you very much. So backhand compliments, what we find is obviously harms the relationship because when people get that, people think it’s condescending. If you want to give negative feedback rather than making your compliments worse by adding a qualifier and making it sound like a background compliment. Maybe one way to give sort of more negative feedback would be to state your intentions.
So tell somebody, I’m really on your side, I’m really on your team and I want to help you. That’s why I’m going to give you this feedback and then give the direct feedback for improvement that’s way more effective and just stating the intention makes a difference actually when people engage in these difficult conversations. So that’s also a very nuanced spot again. Compliments are easy because everyone loves them and it makes you feel good to receive that, but the moment there is any feedback setting, it gets a little complicated because you also want to improve whatever needs to be improved. And then you have to be more thoughtful about what you’re going to say, but definitely no backhanded compliments
AD :
Earlier, you also spoke about all these shifts. If I go back in my notes, you were just talking about. You know, the world is just changing so much, which in some ways is marvelous for the sort of research that you’re doing. I’m curious, as you look across society and culture, whether, you know, from social media shifts to AI and other technological advances, what do you see as potentially new challenges or maybe it’s opportunities that are going to arise and impact the way we try to influence or impress each other or the way we dialogue and converse.
The Complex Interplay Of Privacy, Authenticity & Influence In Social Media [19:41]
OS :
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It’s both fascinating, overwhelming, both a great opportunity, but also a great challenge for everybody as a researcher and also for someone who’s participating in these things, you know, and I do have an Instagram.
Biggest change, again, we talked about this a little bit, there’s almost this norm of you have to take part in this, or even if you don’t, you have to be still careful about not participating in it, because where everybody’s competing for some sort of attention, and when you are also trying to carve out some space for your own expertise, whatever your contribution is to the world, you know, how are you going to let the other people know?
That’s something to think about. If you don’t have these platforms, what else are you doing? I think, especially if you’re on the younger end, if you’re a very high star, if you had the Nobel prize, you don’t have to have LinkedIn right now, right? But maybe even they do. I don’t know. Maybe there’s a competition between the Nobel prize winners too.
Who knows? So you have to think carefully about that. I think the biggest challenge comes from, I mean, with the introduction of AI as well. Now we also have the challenge of what’s super curated, what’s real. I mean, that’s something that we come across in teaching too, right? Like right now it’s the final season and we are doing all sorts of things to make sure that my students do their own writing rather than asking ChatGPT or another one of those to come up with the idea and we do all sorts of things.
So, I think similarly with the general content, there is this idea of what makes something more human like would be a very important question. I mean, going back to the importance of sincerity and being genuine,
AD :
Even the empathy, the role of empathy and perspective taking showing up.
OS :
Yeah and that will be important, I would say, even in all these technology spaces. I do think there’s some sort of a shift there, but it’s happening slowly. I read this on a news piece just recently. So I’m very sorry. I can’t remember the source, but I read that in 2023 and 2024, these are the first years that all social media across all platforms, the influencer posts were more than just a regular person’s posts.
And this is the first time we’re seeing this shift, you know. If you go back to 2015, more regular people were sharing all the random things about their lives. It wasn’t necessarily about promoting anything or trying to sell you something now in the last two years, I think, especially after the pandemic too, now we see the shift that people are trying to be a little more private, a little more, oh, social media is like their thing now. Some other people are doing it.
So I think we’ll see some shift there. I mean, again, the biggest challenge would be how can we make it sound more human and genuine when we are trying to rag and how can we sort of hit that note of perfect balance of both contributing but also keeping our privacy. I think that’s going to be an important issue as well. Even more topics to explore for impression management researchers.
AD :
You’re not out of work yet. Still work ahead.
OS :
Exactly
NM :
As we wrap up, what is one piece of advice that you would give someone looking to improve how they manage impressions and build meaningful relationships to be more effective influencers in their role?
Harnessing Humility & Genuine Engagement To Elevate Influence [22:53]
OS :
Finding someone else to do it for you is pretty bulletproof strategy. I would definitely go for that. Focusing on the journey so that we can look both warm and competent. And humble because humility is very hard to convey, right? The moment you say I’m humble, it’s over. It’s not a verbal strategy.
Like I cannot say I’m the most humble person you ever met that almost sounds like a joke. So focusing on the journey is very important. And I said, we have two. and I know it’s not the third advice. And this is kind of all the topics that we talked about, you know, being attuned, being genuine and giving the other person the stage. These are amazingly effective strategies. But we usually take up the anxiety of, oh my God, I need to be on the stage. I need to take the floor. I need to talk. I need to share. But maybe how about we just focus on the genuine interest and curiosity and let the other person take the floor and things will unfold much better.
AD :
Well, I really appreciate that as a takeaway. Cause I’d written down, you know, the key to being likable is being other-oriented, which I feel is just a shift of thinking when we think about the way we try to impress and the way we can try to engage. So yeah, thank you so much for all these strategies for sharing your work and the work of others. And most of all, just thanks for taking the time to be with us and share your great ideas today. We really appreciate it.
OS :
Oh, thank you so much. It was really great to talk about all of this. My favorite topics and you had really great questions. So I really appreciate your time.
NM :
Absolutely. Well, that is it for us on today’s podcast. If you haven’t already, please rate, review and subscribe to NEGOTIATEx podcast, and we’ll see you in the next episode.