Nolan Martin :
I’m pumped about today’s conversation because I think it’s going to provide a lot of value for a lot of people that are stepping into a new position or potentially trying to renegotiate their salary with their employer. I know that you recently heard in or heard back from one of your previous students, they were telling you about the amount of success they had by actually applying the same principles of negotiation to their salary negotiation.
So I was hoping we could talk about that today and give some advice to all of our listeners.
Negotiating A Raise: How One Strategy Led To 2.5x More [00:29]
Aram Donigian :
Well, in this case, and again, I think there, there’s similarity. There’s obviously some differences whether you’re with a company or whether you are just trying to get on with the company. In this case, my student had been with the company for not quite a year, but then came up time to discuss a potential raise.
And really, again, thinking about the things we’ve talked about so many podcasts before, the student was just sharp about thinking about how to leverage the relationship that he had with the manager and developed over the last year to really dig into what interests there were. Take time to consider what jobs are out there if they had to walk away. So the idea of alternatives, really get creative around potential options.
And also think about the fair comparisons, throughout just transparent, open communication both ways. Lots of good questioning. And then finally, thinking about commitments, committing to come back after some time to, after having discussed it. And at the end, the student was able to negotiate a two and a half times, not percentage, but two and a half times greater raise than what had originally been proposed. So I think that’s a nice application of some of these concepts.
NM :
Do you always need to negotiate your salary when you’re trying to land a new job?
Should You Always Negotiate? Why the Answer Isn’t Always Yes [01:39]
AD :
No, you don’t always negotiate. If you came to me today, Nolan, with a proposal or an offer that satisfied my interests in whole because I really wanted to work for you. I really wanted this job. What you were offering me was incredibly fair. Why would I negotiate that further and risk damage the relationship, risk a possible no, when that didn’t need to be that way. Or even risk if you were to agree to something greater, risk putting you at some greater risk.
So I don’t think you always negotiate. And I think that when you do there’s a few things we can get into in terms of advice and principles that are pretty applicable. I’ll tell you the biggest thing I’ll tell anyone if they’re negotiating, whether for their initial salary or as part of a raise or promotion is this negotiation is the first or maybe second or maybe your job interview is the first opportunity to gain an impression of what it’s gonna be like for you to work for this company and for this company to work with you.
So how you present yourself and how you carry yourself and how you communicate and how you engage on a problem to be resolved is really an important indicator. And it goes both ways. And so I wouldn’t treat it lightly, and that’s why I wouldn’t be flippant and say, you always negotiated. I would treat this process with tremendous respect.
NM :
From my perspective, I’ve never had to go initially into a salary negotiation. However, I am a business owner, and so I’ve had to do this from the opposite end. And I think that there’s a lot of alignment here, whether you’re the business owner or the employee as to finding some common ground and really working out the best solution.
AD :
Completely agreed. And that, so that development of that relationship, the integrity of it, really does go both ways. I think it’s so wise for you to say that as a business owner, I’m curious and to turn it kinda on you. And as look at that negotiation you had, early stages of your own business. The tensions about, what could provide what you couldn’t, what was some of your thinking as you went about that?
Early-Stage Hiring: Balancing Budget Limits with Flexibility & Trust [03:42]
NM :
Yeah, so I was honestly just completely open with, so we’re talking about my writer Jon, and I was just completely open with Jon. I was like, hey, here is what I can afford to pay you. I know that this is not necessarily the full value of your worth, but I also don’t want you to feel like I’m dangling to carry it over your head and that I’m gonna get to that salary anytime soon.
So, I mean I will work with you as to maybe, giving you more flexibility. Like I’m very loose of my deadlines because of this. I say, hey, I need you to work 30 hours a week. Here are the goals for the week. However, like as long as we meet the publishing deadlines, I’m very flexible if we’re operating within two to three weeks in advance, or he has the ability to work on the weekend if I’m working during the week.
So I tried to find other ways to figure out how could I allow this to be better for him, even though he may not be getting the salary that we both are looking, like we both want him to get. And that’s just ’cause we’re a new company. And so yeah.
Exploring Interests & Creating Value On Both Sides [04:43]
AD :
I think you hit on a number of key points, right? So the first piece is the open transparency at the beginning. I think that’s showing respect for the relationship between you and Jon. You’re being polite and forthright. I would tell if I’m on Jon’s side, maybe, or if I’m advising the candidate asking for the salary, be genuine to be likable, but I think that applies for you as well as the business owner.
It’s interesting you talked about like fair worth knowing your value on the market. And there’s a number of websites you can go and see what jobs the range that different jobs price out at. That’s harder to do depending on the maturity of the company. So in your case, a little harder to either quantify that or even get to that and see maybe on the lower end of a spectrum. But it still sounds like that’s part of the conversation, that was still part of the conversation of what’s fair and reasonable.
Yeah. The other thing you get in that I heard you get into with your story too, Nolan, is the idea that you explored some of Jon’s interests, right? And beyond pay. And so there’s people and people always, no not always but often do have more interests than just that single amount, right?
So the idea of, you know, the autonomy that I get where I’m working from, how much travel’s gonna be involved, am I a good fit with you as my employer or with this company? What other benefits are there? What’s the start date? Will there be leadership opportunities, will I have access to senior leaders? These are all interests that people have, and those can be fulfilled in some creative ways, right? So what we, you and I would call options, but there’s a number of creative things we can do. Try to satisfy them.
NM :
I think it is important for the Negotiate X listener, employee to go into this and really understand the broad spectrum here, right? Look at it from the lens of your boss, and then think about as we said before, his boss that he has to satisfy the company that he has to satisfy whenever he does, get to an agreement with you.
So everyone’s interests need to be aligned and so I think that a smart Negotiate X listener going into the salary negotiation just needs to understand where can I gain some ground and where should I just not push because I’m smart enough to realize that it may not. It just isn’t there. We had an awesome conversation today, but this is a podcast that is all about action. It’s all about elevating your influence through purposeful negotiations. So with that, what are some action items we can give our listeners so that they could become better prepared when they are either going into a salary negotiation or if they’re the boss and looking to negotiate someone’s salary?
Smart Negotiation: Know Your Alternatives, Read The Room, Ask For Time [07:24]
AD :
I think the only other thing that I would probably add, so maybe two-fourth, obviously we haven’t talked about knowing your alternatives in the story I told about my student, he took time to really know what his alternatives were, looked at, they started to do a little fishing even though he really wanted to be back at this company.
So knowing your alternatives and not underestimating yours, and not overestimating theirs too. There’s a reason why someone has offered you this job. There’s a reason why someone has kept you on for a year, and for them to go out and externally hire someone else or to go back through the process is painful.
So don’t put too much of an overestimate on what their alternatives are. So be sure to research yours. The other piece of advice I would give here is sometimes what you need to negotiate for is more information or simply more time to make a decision. And I’m not talking about trying to lead someone on needlessly, but I think sometimes just more information about the job.
But what are we committing to about expectations that can be helpful? Or time if I’m considering different options that I have different job opportunities, a little bit more time and being as transparent as possible. And that’s been advice that I’ve certainly given to folks getting down in the military before who have 2, 3, 4 different job offers.
And they all satisfy different interests and they’re really trying to weigh in and they’re trying to figure out, they’re, and they’re coming in at different times, so being able to navigate, just get a little bit more time on the clock and really help them too.
Negotiation Tips for Both Sides: Be Transparent, Be Creative, Be Prepared [08:49]
NM :
And then from the employer perspective, it worked for me. It may work for you as well. And that’s just to be completely transparent. Like, hey, here is what, work towards that solution together. As the employer, you’re still gonna find out what are the interests of this employee and how can I best satisfy them to make sure that they are still growing in the company and they feel like there’s some more opportunities to get where they want to get, so.
AD :
Yeah, interests are often more than just pay. So make sure to consider for all parties involved full range of interests. As you think about those interests, there’s a lot of creative things that companies are doing to solve for differences in pay because we’re gonna satisfy for other things.
So be really creative. And then third, know what you’re worth, know your comparables have a fair understanding of what you are worth out there on the market. And if you’re on the other side, if you’re the employer hiring, know what this position is fairly worth. Have a solid range.
NM :
And we will see you in the next episode.
