Nolan Martin :
Hey everyone, thanks for joining us in the NEGOTIATEx podcast. We are continuing our conversation with Damali Peterman, CEO and founder of Breakthrough ADR. If you haven’t already checked out part A of the show, be sure to do that first. Let’s jump into the conversation with Damali.
NM :
Yeah, you just mentioned that bias shows up every time and everywhere. And so we’d love to dig in more about how to face both implicit and explicit bias. And if you can explain what both of these are and how they show up in negotiations.
How Unseen Prejudices Influence Empathy & Negotiation [00:31]
Damali Peterman :
An implicit bias is really a negative attitude, right? So oftentimes a person is not consciously aware that they have this bias, right? This is also called, subconscious or unconscious bias rather. And so implicit biases are prejudiced, right? It’s prejudiced against another person, and it affects one’s behavior, one’s judgment. The issue with implicit bias is that because it impacts behavior, judgment, attitudes, it can also block some of the things that we also need to use, like empathy, for example.
So how can one be empathetic? This goes back to an earlier question, how come it’s hard for people to sometimes show emotion or to lean into emotion? Sometimes a person can’t be empathetic if there is an implicit bias that’s blocking them, right? And so if there’s an implicit bias, that is this negative attitude that one’s not aware of, that certain people do certain things, group of people do these types of things, then that might block the empathy we’re told to use.
Oftentimes, and people have very little in common. The deadlocks may be because of implicit biases, not just the other persons, but our own. And so I think that’s how it shows up in negotiations. I think that not leaning into how implicit biases work is, does a disservice to anyone who’s negotiating because it’s so real and because people aren’t aware of it, they may not be aware that they’re showing it.
I had someone say to me recently that they didn’t understand why. The word black was on my book, and I thought that was interesting because this very same person had started a women’s group, and she understood why it was important to take out women and have a safe space for women to talk, but she didn’t understand because she was not black, why it was important for me to have the word black on my book.
I’ll tell you that I told you I had to negotiate every aspect of the book. Negotiating While Black is my original title. It’s the original title that I had. Oftentimes when people buy books, they want to change the title. Everyone knows, oh, they might change the title. If you sell your book to a big publisher, they may have different ideas.
It was very important to me that I kept that title for a variety of reasons. One, negotiation books typically have titles like, something positive and something that gives you a promise, right? Or tells you what to do or what not to do. I wanted to change that a little bit because remember I’m trying to tell you, change the model. I’m trying to say, abandon this one size fits all approach. Abandon this Copy Me model. Let me share something about an experience that people are having, regardless of what box you check. And so to me, negotiating while black was important because for me, I wanted to share stories, black stories I wanted to share because let me just be very clear.
It’s not just black stories and black is not monolith. So I don’t want people to think, oh, you have to be black to read this book. No, that’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that it was important for people to see that I’m sharing stories and stories that aren’t always typical stories that are being shown, because we always are saying people, a lot of people are saying, oh, we want more authors, we want more diversity in terms of authors a couple of things, one, you have to have more authors share their stories and two.
When the books are out there, people have to buy the books, right? And so that’s how you tell the market that people want to hear these stories. The market is showing that they want, people want to hear the stories, that they want to read this book. And so the title was important to me, Negotiating While Black, because I wanted to share stories.
Two, to many people, it might be Negotiating While ____. So whatever box you check, I wanted you to see yourself in the stories. So all the stories aren’t about what I consider to be an aspect of Black experience. They’re stories that check different boxes. Anything that you can think of. Women for certain, there are a lot of stories about women, a lot of stories about younger people, a lot of stories about LGBTQ+ family.
And so I wanted to make sure that people could see themselves. Two, the subtitle is also the original subtitle, be who you are to get what you want. If for whatever reason you didn’t see yourself in Negotiating While Black, do you want to get what you want by being who you are? I wanted people to see themselves in that too.
And then finally, with the subtitle, also my original one, anyone who’s ever been underestimated or misunderstood, I wanted people to see themselves in that. So if you have ever felt as if you are underestimated in a negotiation or misunderstood in a conversation. Maybe it’s because of bias. Maybe it’s the bias on the other side. Maybe it’s partially due to your bias. And how can we pull all of this together in a book that sits in two categories? In business and also in personal improvement. It was not easy.
Aram Donigian :
I think you did a wonderful job. You’ve done a wonderful job with it. I love this focus. I’m going to go back to something you said, the only constant and every negotiation is you want people to see themselves in the book. And I really agree with your analysis that I mean, negotiation is something we do every day, personal life, as well as corporate, we need to see ourselves as showing up in that way that probably changes how we do that.
Can you say a little bit more? You mentioned superpowers. Why is it like when we show up as our authentic self or manage how the other party perceives us? Why is that a superpower in negotiation?
Leveraging Personal Superpowers In Negotiations & Beyond [05:54]
DP :
Let me answer it from this perspective. If you’re trying to be like someone else, then there’s going to be something off about the way you communicate, right? There’s something disingenuous because you’re trying to follow someone else’s script, right?
I’m trying to be like this (fill in the blank). This person is partner, this mentor, the CEO, this president, whomever you’re, my manager, because this person gets things done. Everyone likes this person. So if I try to imitate that person, then maybe I too will have that success. The world doesn’t really work that way, especially if you don’t look like that other person, you have nothing in common with that other person.
And again, to be clear, I don’t think that one race ethnicity group is monolith. I don’t think that, and so I’m not saying that. But what I am saying is that what’s important to recognize is that because we’re all different, when you bring, you tap into the richness of your differences and you bring that to the table, one, you’re more memorable, right?
People remember you. If you just blend into the crowd, you don’t stand out for a good reason or a bad reason, then no one’s going to remember you. So I think it’s very important that you tap into your own superpowers. And some of the things that I recognize as being superpowers are probably some things that people are familiar with.
Of course, I usually ask the question, what is your superpower? And I hear, oh, I’m a good listener. I’m observant. I’m really good at leading. I’m really good at distilling, chaos, whatever it is. Okay. So let’s figure out how we can tap into your superpower every time you’re negotiating, right?
But even when something goes unplanned, something occurs that you are not anticipating, how do you prepare for that? Because to me, it’s not just preparing for the negotiation or the conversation based on what you’re going to say. You have to prepare to listen. You have to prepare to be, what if someone says something that is intentionally or unintentionally triggering, right? Earlier we were talking about, and I focus mostly on implicit bias.
I focus on the definition of implicit bias because I tend to believe most people know what bias is and what prejudice is directly. We know what words not to say. We oftentimes know what not to do. It’s the unconscious behavior that we’re not aware of. The implicit biases that tend to. Get us in trouble and we aren’t aware of it. And then we have unintentionally committed an offense and we have to figure out how to fix it. And so I think when we’re focusing on superpowers one, ask yourself, what do I do well?
What is it that I’m good at? Then ask yourself, what do people tell me that I’m good at? Cause sometimes people see us differently than we see ourselves. And then I would say, what does someone tell you that you were not good at or that you’re bad at, and how can we reframe that so that you could see it as a positive?
I asked this question. I was a keynote speaker at a conference in Arizona a couple of months ago, and I asked this question to a room of 150 people. And one person said, people tell me that I talk too much or someone else said people tell me that I’m too loyal. Can’t we all see how talking too much, some people get paid to talk, could be a positive or how being loyal could be a positive.
So I just want people to expand how they’re viewing superpowers and reframe so they can see some things that they may consider to be a negative or others consider to be a negative or even culturally. Or in your society, people may say as a negative, maybe a superpower and another forum, and how do we pull into those?
How do we tap into those things in a negotiation so that we’re always bringing ourselves, our authentic selves to the table, being thoughtful, and also thinking about how we could be triggered in a negotiation and how to prepare for that in advance.
NM :
Yeah. In your book, you allude to information is also the currency of negotiation, probably just as important as knowing your superpowers. In your book, you call information power and the great equalizer. How do you advise people to pull information from their counterpart? And what is your advice for sharing information with your counterpart?
Effective Strategies For Eliciting Insights In Negotiations [10:11]
DP :
There’s so many ways to try to pull information from a person, right? Of course, we can ask some questions and I go into different ways that we can ask questions from targeted questions among others.
I think it’s really important to also think about how you get information that’s not just pulling it from the person because people can be elusive or secretive or private for a variety of reasons. Maybe there are things that they cannot share, especially if it’s an attorney you’re talking to.
There’s some attorney client privilege there with between them and their client. And maybe there are things that they can’t or won’t say for a variety of reasons. And so I think it’s really important to know that information is power and it is the great equalizer because the more, the more you can do with that information.
And I’ve seen people in negotiations and I’ve represented clients who were perceived as the underdog, right? Because maybe their EBITDA was lower the other companies or what have you. But because we had information, there is a way that we could actually show that we had more leverage. And to me, if you’re in a negotiation, then you have some leverage.
I think oftentimes people think, Oh, the other person may be older, wiser, smarter, richer, et cetera. And so they are going to have more leverage. But if they are negotiating with you, because otherwise they would just tell you what to do. They would just dictate, right? My nine year old is an amazing negotiator.
He said to me yesterday, Mom, I know it’s late. But one of his brother’s friends is on playing the video game and they just invited me and I don’t want to lose this opportunity. So do you think it’s okay for me to play video games with them? I was like, man, that is good. Like I don’t want to deprive him of an opportunity.
I said, it was such a good negotiation strategy. He tapped right into the word opportunity. I don’t want to deprive my child. Acknowledge his power, he should have been sleeping. He was playing video games for another 30 minutes. I wanted him to have that opportunity, but in all seriousness, to take, to get information out of someone, I think.
What’s really key is figuring out just like in comedy or improv, you got to figure out where the boundaries are, where the borders are. And if you’ve ever watched a comedian, they’re doing that very early on in their set, right? They may have a lot of material they’re not using and they’re testing out audience to see like where they cringe, where they stop laughing, and it sounds like a silly analogy, but it works because you’re reacting real time to inputs, to stimulus.
in the moment and you will be prepared. I know a lot of people are prepared for negotiations. You have all the information that you can, hopefully, that you can get your hands on. And then I think when you’re listening to the other person, going back to the foundational five and trying to get information, if you think about it from trying to understand what they want and what they need, that can help you.
Because sometimes there’s so much going on, it can be overwhelming. And if you just distill it to two things. Just remember, I want to know what the other person wants and what they need. I can learn that by listening to them. I can ask questions, both open and targeted, to get that going. I can build some momentum.
I talk about this in my book, about how to get the momentum going with the questions we really don’t want to get the full answers in the sense there’s a moment where you might be trying to lead them to a specific place, different ways that you can get information from someone, depending on what the circumstances are the situation is.
But I think at the end of the day, what you want to go back to is. What do you need to know? Why do you need to know it? And then how are you going to use that information?
AD :
That’s fantastic. And congrats to your son on his successful negotiation. You’ve clearly taught him well, everything we’ve been discussing up to this point, I think is highly relevant for any negotiator, regardless of context or background, anything else, as we get into our final few questions, Damali, I’d love to shift to specific examples and advice you would have for someone facing intense prejudice. Would you mind sharing what works effectively in these situations?
Strategies For Thoughtful Response & Self-Preservation In Tense Situations [14:16]
DP :
The first thing I’ll say is I don’t think there’s one approach, right? That’s like my whole philosophy is that there isn’t one approach and what that equates to and lawyers speak is it depends, right? The two words that people hate to hear, it depends.
But what I will say is that it’s really situational and it depends on the person. When you’re facing extreme prejudice in different scenarios, it really depends. So in my book, I talk about facing extreme prejudice if it’s coming from law enforcement. And what’s interesting about that is it may feel like a departure from some of the other things that I’m saying, right?
Because I’m saying, knowledge is power, information is power, but I don’t think it’s always helpful to show how much you know when it’s not. When you’re negotiating, when your life may be on the line and you’re facing some extreme prejudice, right? So I think it really depends. So if you’re facing extreme prejudice, especially in a situation where you, one option that you have is to walk away, right?
That’s something that I think you have to consider. Neuroscience tells us that our brain is usually going into fight, flight, or freeze when there is a situation where it’s called it triggered. That’s why one of the options is flight, right? Fight, flight, or freeze. One option is flight to walk away, to remove yourself from the situation.
Now I don’t mean in a negotiation, just walk out of the room. That is a tactic and strategy that some people use. What I mean by that is sometimes it’s helpful to reduce tensions and buy time, gather more information by being conflict avoidant for a moment, and then coming back and being more competitive.
We’re going back a little bit to some of the Thomas Kilman’s Five Ways To Respond To Conflict. So I think that when you’re extreme prejudice, you have to think through what your options are. So one of course is fight, fight, fight isn’t just adversarial fight is also being smart and thinking five steps ahead.
I always try to teach people, my children, including people that I work with and including myself. I try to be five steps ahead, right? I try to think of what the various outcomes are. So what is my goal for fighting? What do I want to accomplish? What do I need to accomplish in this moment? Am I trying to teach a lesson?
Am I trying to be a role model for someone else who’s looking, who may not know what to do if they’re faced with extreme prejudice? Do I think is it an attempt strategically on the other side to throw me off of my game? So I can be focused on fighting prejudice instead of negotiating and getting what I need or what my clients need.
And so the fight has to be to me thoughtful in terms of how you want to handle it. If you’re going to fight and how you fight smart. And so again, it’s not just, boxing or physical fighting could be the way that you think through how you’re going to respond, react going forward. And then with freeze, what’s interesting about freeze when there’s extreme prejudices, I think it a little bit falls in the flight category in the sense that you pause, you slow down.
And I don’t mean freeze and do nothing. Stop, slow down, give your executive function an opportunity to re-engage where your amygdala is no longer hijacked and you can think. And have cool, calm decisions, decision-making ability, and then decide what to do. So I can tell you for, it’s easier to talk about this with an example, right?
I have been in situations where people have said and done things that showed extreme prejudice and each of those situations, I handled them differently, depending on where I was, what the stakes were, meaning what did I think in that moment that they were trying to get under my skin because they knew that I was a better negotiator than them, smarter than them.
And then I had to also ask myself about any implicit biases that I had, that I may have been holding onto. So do I think that what they’re doing is coming from their own implicit bias or is it my assumption of their bias, which makes what they’re showing me as extreme prejudice hit different, right? It feels different.
So I think in the moment, my tips for anyone who’s experiencing extreme prejudice is one, my judgment will never replace yours. That’s why I’m giving tools, right? Two, slow things down to the extent that you can. Slow things down. Oftentimes, I hear people saying what they would have, could have, or should have done, right?
We all know the saying that hindsight is 20-20. If you had one more minute to think, what would you have done, right? To not just react. But to think through how you’re going to react. If you look at a lot of situations in the news, when we’ve seen the videos of people experiencing what I would call an extreme prejudice, look at how quickly things escalated in seconds, in minutes.
And would someone have done differently if things were just slowed down a little bit to just think, okay, what should I do? What can I do now? What can I do later? And to be really very extreme, how can I live to fight another day? And so those are my main point as one, use your best judgment. Two, slow things down.
Three, think, what should you do? And if you’re not the right person, think, what would Damali do? Or think, what would Nolan do? Think, what would Jesus do? Whoever, whomever you need to think to insert that person. What would grandma do? Whoever it is. If you know that you’re not the right person to say, what would blank do?
Then try to channel whoever that is. And I’ve had that happen before. I’ve had people say, Damali, I was ready to do X, Y, and Z. And I pause. And I thought, what would Damali say right now? And I used to have a blog called, what would Damali do? So that’s why it’s funny, but I just think, and don’t get me wrong.
I don’t always make the best decisions, right? I don’t want people to think that I’m just walking around, just floating, and no, I don’t know. It’s like the best decisions, but I do try to stop and think as to the extent that I can, even if it’s a second, I use a last technique I’ll point out is breathing. If people say, how do I stop and think? Things are happening so fast. What do I do? Breathing exercise, I talk about a few different ones, even used by the Navy SEALs to recenter, to calm your body down, to give your brain a chance to think, I think is really important.
So, doing some four by four breathing or whatever type of breathing exercise that you can do will help you to make the best decision. But extreme prejudice, it happened to many people I know, including children, and it’s a tough one because you may not know what to do. And even if you knew what to do, maybe you were preparing for the moment when it happens, you may be like, did this just happen that this actually just happened to me? There’s a lot that goes into it. I wish I had an easy answer for that question. It depends.
AD :
It depends. It’s a good lawyer’s answer so much in there. You mentioned the seals by the way, and it’s in that community as we’ve done some work too. The idea of slow is smooth and smooth is fast. And I hear that kind of in your response too, as you framed that out. Earlier when you talked about your upbringing and being, learning not only what to advocate for, but how to advocate well, I wanna just return that for a second.
How much does your advice around dealing with prejudice overlap with advice for how do I advocate well for my own beliefs, my own values, my own identity?
The Importance Of Diversity & Inclusion In Storytelling & Education [22:17]
DP :
That’s a great question. And I’ll say that in terms of prejudice was interesting is that we’re going through, I wouldn’t say it’s unprecedented because this sort of comes around in waves or cycles, but the current environment is one where diversity, equity and inclusion is under attack. And we’ve seen changes in the law that’s peeling back some of the progress that has been made. With respect to just making sure there are more voices at the table, the reasons that some of these practices went into effect is because it was disproportionate. And now, there’s an opportunity.
I think now that’s coming back. We’re seeing things that are surprising to me, being an author, book bands, we’re seeing education be impacted in a way that students, children and students aren’t learning about some of the things that I think are helpful to know so that we know the history so that we don’t, make the same mistakes so that we learn from history.
And so in my own personal life, when dealing with advocating, something that I’ll say is what’s very interesting is that in the North America, my book has one title. And then internationally it has the other title. It is the same book. And what’s interesting is how sometimes people gravitate towards one title over the other.
It’s a social experiment, if you will. And I shouldn’t say it’s the same book. There are a couple of things that are, that have been changed. But when I say a couple, when I recorded it, it took me 20 minutes to make those changes. So this that’s to tell you in a book, that’s what seven or eight hours recorded. Only 20 minutes of changes are different. And on paper, I think I only made three pages of changes and that was including the questions that I was being asked to address in the international version. And so what I mentioned before that it’s important to have diversity in storytelling. I think that everyone is the griot of their story and should tell their stories.
I think stories should not only reflect certain voices, they should reflect as many diverse voices as possible because we are a multicultural society. So it only makes sense that you would hear from a variety of voices. And that’s not, me just saying that because I’m a diverse person. I want to turn on the TV and see different people doing different things. I don’t only want to see the same person or group of people.
I want to read different stories. I want to know what’s happening in different parts of the world. Right now, my son is reading a book, and I hope I say this the right way, But on the Iroquois, I believe it was a tribe of indigenous people. And I’m reading it too, because I was like, Oh, that’s interesting. I’ve never heard of people. And so I’m reading it too. And so I just think it’s important to have different stories be told. I think about advocacy. What am I advocating for?
I am working on two new books, right? And then it’s interesting about that is going from this book, which is doing very well to the next two books and figuring out again, what the market needs and what legacy I want to leave? And how I want to help people and how can I help people? And so everything goes back to that for me when I’m asking myself about any prejudice or bias that I’m experiencing. One, I go back to the foundational five, what do I want? What do I need? Am I listening to hear what the market needs and how am I communicating it?
And how do I know when it’s done? When is it time to close and move on? Those are tenets that I live by because that’s how I can be grounded even in the face of bias. That’s how I remember to get whatever it is that I want and I need, not just for myself, but for others that I’m advocating for.
And even when I’m in the middle, when I’m the third party neutral, I’m also trying to figure out getting past the positions that people are stating. What are their interests? What is it that they want? What is it that they need? How can I get them to hear each other? How can I improve the communication of what they need by me, helping them to communicate it and when is it time to wrap it up? It’s something that is applicable to almost any situation, including my own advocacy, my own self advocacy.
AD :
I love that you have embraced this new identity as author, since you are working on two more books. We won’t let the attorney completely disappear, I’m sure. What would you advise a person who has said or done something, perhaps unintentionally that demonstrates a bias likely implicit that has triggered or offends the other person. So when you’re on the other side, what’s the advice there and you can actually recognize it.
Navigating & Recovering From Unintended Offenses In Communication [27:02]
DP :
Oh, this has happened to all of us, right? You guys too, right? Where we have said something or done something that unintentionally offended someone else. I devote a chapter to this on my book on How To Recover From Unintended Offense. And I take a deeper dive there, but something that I think is important is what I call Mind The Gap, right? So oftentimes we may have an indication that something is off.
It could be a micro expression. And so we might see on someone’s face, like something happened where they look momentarily surprised or, affronted or angry or whatever it is, we may see it. But then the question is, what do we do with that? What do we do? And so if it happens in the moment, if possible, one thing you can do is to lean into it.
Hey, what just happened? I noticed that there was like an expression that I found hard to read and I don’t know if it was something that I said or did. And what just happened? In that moment when it’s fresh. They may tell you what it is. Oh, I was surprised when you said X because of Y or I thought you were going to say this, but you said that, or, I’m sorry, it had nothing to do with you.
I was thinking that I forgot to do X, Y, and Z at home or send an email out the ceiling. My draft need to get to it. I’ll never forget one time having a mediation and in the mediation, we were sitting in the room and there was a person who kept looking at the clock on the wall. Now, for most people, if someone’s looking at the clock on the wall, what does that mean?
It likely means that they have somewhere else they want to be, or they don’t want to be here. In this situation, I didn’t just assume that was what was happening to that person. I asked the question, hey, I noticed that you were looking at the clock. Is everything okay? Okay. What he said to me was, yes, everything’s fine. It’s just that you said we couldn’t have our phones on during the mediation. And I have my car at a meter and I use my phone to set an alarm so that I know when to put money on the meter. So I keep looking at the clock because I don’t want to get a ticket. Boom, right? Now I have information. Information is power.
So now I can say, Oh, please, by all means, set your alarm. But let me just tell people in the room so that if it goes off, they don’t think that the phone is ringing. Okay. Is it possible to put it on vibrate? If you feel comfortable, tell me what time it is. And I can set an alarm so that it’s not disruptive to the process. The reason that I don’t want phones on is so that it’s not disruptive to the process. So explaining my need for wanting to have the phones off and so again, going back to the foundational five. So what I think is really important is just making sure of a couple of things and you’re right. I will always be an attorney.
It’s funny. Sometimes people say don’t, I have to think about what hat I’m going to wear when someone calls me. What hat do they want me to wear? Do they just want to vent? Do they want advice? Do they want me to mediate? What are they asking me for? But I think what’s really important is when you commit an unintended offense, right?
It’s just thinking, did I notice something? There’s something off. And I talk about chemo signals and things like that. There’s a lot of research on how something in the atmosphere, which people might just consider to be vibes or energy, if you’re into those, that type of language, but the technical term is chemo signals or chemo signals, which can impact the environment and how one feels in the environment.
So if someone’s upset, that can then impact you if you walk into that space and you just absorb that energy. So I say, I was to say that there are different ways that you can recover. In the moment, if you notice it, mind the gap. Ask a question, figure out what went wrong. If it’s after the fact and you’re trying to CSI it and forensically understand what went wrong, then something that you may want to do is try to figure it out. What happened? Was it something I said? Was it something I did? Was it something someone else said? And I should have picked up on it and I should have fixed it.
Sometimes, we’ve all been in a situation where a client says something that maybe we wish that they shouldn’t have said, and we try to find a way to fix it. Recovering from an unintended offense is to me like one of the greatest skills that I provide in the book because it’s happened to all of us. We can all try at least to fix it. We may not be able to fix it, but if we want to fix it, I will give you some tools to help you fix it.
NM :
That’s great. This has been a powerful discussion. Thank you so much, Damali. As we prepare to conclude, what final thought would you like to leave with our listeners to help them as they become more effective negotiators?
Recognizing Bias & Harnessing Personal Power In Everyday Negotiations [31:34]
DP :
Oh, that’s such a good question. I think for listeners, the first thing is to recognize is that you are a negotiator. You negotiate every day. And sometimes if you don’t see your power. When you’re negotiating for yourself, I want you to think about who you advocate for. Do you advocate for a friend, a family member? Do you advocate for animals? What do you value? What’s important to you? What is your moral compass?
And think about how you put your mind, your voice, your money behind that. I want you to know that you are a negotiator. You negotiate every day and you’re probably better at it than you think. And so that’s the first thing.
The second thing is that bias is real. It happens every day, whether you are aware of it or not. You have bias. I have bias. We all have implicit bias. There are many ways to work through bias. One is being aware of it. And so I think it’s very important to just recognize that and then prepare, the same way you prepare for your negotiations and discussions. Prepare to be triggered.
So for example, if you know that if someone says something that’s condescending to your negotiation. Be ready for it. Have a quip ready. There is a woman that I worked with before she was a senior partner. And I was personally there a couple of times when I saw clients who were senior men in their companies, ask her to go get coffee.
And some of the younger women who worked with her were always surprised. Oh, they’re having this senior attorney go get coffee. And so one day we asked her like, how come you don’t see anything? How come you just go get the coffee? And she was like, oh I’m so used to it. If they want to pay me my rate to go get coffee. That’s no part not no skin off of my back if they want to pay me to do that, not a problem.
So she had already, you know, found a way to deal with it. She knew it was going to happen and she didn’t let it impact her ability to be an exceptional attorney. And I learned that from her oh, someone might say something or do something that may be offensive to me. And how am I going to be prepared for it?
I’ve had people say, oh, your hair is amazing. Can I touch it? I’m already ready. No, I don’t think so. I don’t like people touching my hair. I prefer that you don’t. Things like that, like just small things that for some people that could just throw them off. It’s a real example and it happens to a lot of people, but I think it’s something that just show you be prepared and have something at the ready that you can utilize. And then the last takeaway that I will leave is essentially this fact that there is no one-size-fits-all approach. When you only try to follow one person’s script, you are limiting yourself and the universe of potential negotiated outcomes, right? You want to take all of the opportunities that come to you.
And if you try to follow this copy me model of negotiation, you are doing yourself a disservice. Even if you check all the boxes of some of those writers of the other negotiation books. And so if there’s one takeaway that you can take away from my book, it is that you can be who you are and you can get what you want because the only constant in each of your negotiations is you.
AD :
Beautifully said Damali, and thank you so much for taking the time. This has been, we’ve taken a little bit more of your time than we planned on, but I know that it’s been valuable for us and certainly for our listeners. So thanks. And thanks for the insights. Thanks for the stories. But most importantly, thanks for your time.
DP :
Thank you both. It’s been a wonderful discussion. And I’m really excited about NEGOTIATEx podcast and just having this time to speak with both of you.
NM :
Thank you. Well, that is it for us on today’s podcast. If you haven’t already, please rate, review, and subscribe to NEGOTIATEx podcast, and we’ll see you in the next episode.
