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Podcast Episode 116 Part B of NegotiateX with Fred E. Jandt on negotiation mastery and conflict resolution in 2025.
HOSTED BY: NOLAN MARTIN & ARAM DONIGIAN

A Guide To Negotiation Mastery & Conflict Resolution In 2025

Key Takeaways
  • Every conflict should be approached with strategic analysis rather than an impulsive reaction. One needs to understand context, stakeholders, interests, and power dynamics.
  • Recognizing when you’re emotionally overwhelmed and pausing before engaging is important; emotional regulation is essential for clear, effective negotiation.
  • Conflict is a sign of emotional investment, especially in close relationships. Handling it well strengthens connection and trust.
  • Virtual platforms and AI tools can enhance accessibility, empathy, and efficiency in negotiation when used thoughtfully.
  • Mediators and leaders must be vigilant when disparities exist and ensure all voices are heard and respected.
  • To persuade those in authority, it’s important to frame ideas regarding their goals and motivations—sell the benefit, not just the idea.
  • All conflicts benefit from preparation, analysis, and thoughtful resolution techniques, whether organizational or interpersonal.
Table Of Content
  1. Executive Summary:
  2. Transcript:

Executive Summary:

Welcome back to the  NEGOTIATEx Podcast, everyone! We’re excited to continue our conversation with  Fred E. Jandt — an experienced negotiator, mediator, and educator. In Part A, of our discussion, Fred offered deep insights into negotiation, mediation, and intercultural communication.

Drawing on decades of experience, he debunked common myths about conflict, addressed ethical challenges in transactional negotiations, and unpacked the cultural significance of “face” in diplomatic settings. Fred also highlighted why avoidance and overly formal processes often fall short in today’s workplaces, emphasizing instead the importance of mediation skills for effective leadership.

Blending practical wisdom from his work in academia, government, and international diplomacy, Fred encouraged leaders to foster collaboration, question assumptions, and build trust-driven approaches to conflict resolution across diverse environments.

If you haven’t listened to Part A yet, we highly recommend starting there to get the full context and lay the foundation for deeper negotiation mastery. Now, let’s dive back in and continue our conversation with Fred.

How Conflict Analysis Transformed Caltrans’ Organizational Culture

Fred begins by recounting his experience consulting for the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans), a government agency known for its long-standing autonomy. Over time, however, shifting societal expectations and regulatory pressures brought increased demands from community groups, environmental advocates, and other transportation entities. These external forces called for greater collaboration and accountability, signaling the organization’s need for cultural transformation.

To support this shift, Fred was brought in to lead a multi-year training initiative focused on equipping hundreds of mid-level managers with critical negotiation and conflict resolution skills. At the heart of this effort was a core principle: analyzing conflicts before responding to them. Rather than reacting impulsively, Fred advocated for a deliberate, structured approach to conflict assessment.

This methodology included several key steps: understanding the broader context of the issue, identifying all stakeholders—including political and organizational players—clarifying both stated demands and underlying interests, examining each party’s perspective, and evaluating the balance of power. 

Managers were also trained to recognize external influences and generate creative, mutually beneficial solutions. This comprehensive framework empowered leaders to shift from a reactive mindset to one rooted in thoughtful, strategic engagement.

Fred highlights this transition as moving from a “Fire, Aim, Ready” mentality to a more effective “Ready, Aim, Fire” approach. Aram notes that preparation is often undervalued in high-pressure situations, even though it’s essential. Fred agrees, stressing that managers must learn to assess the likelihood of success before taking action.

Ultimately, the Caltrans training program helped embed a more intentional and collaborative style of leadership—one that’s increasingly vital in today’s complex, stakeholder-driven world.

How Emotionally Grounded Leaders Negotiate With Clarity & Purpose

Next, Aram and Fred explore the emotional dimensions of conflict, highlighting how managing anger—and approaching each situation with patience and preparation—is essential to negotiation mastery.

Aram begins by reaffirming the importance of evaluating the probability of success in any given conflict situation. He emphasizes that while outcomes can’t be predicted with certainty, leaders can weigh their options and assess which paths are more likely to lead to productive results. Coming from both a negotiation and military background, Aram underlines how deeply he and Nolan value thorough preparation and strategic foresight.

Fred builds on this by pointing out a common disconnect in leadership behavior. According to him, even highly sophisticated leaders who manage complex systems and policies often fail to apply those same deliberate skills when dealing with basic interpersonal or organizational conflicts. He advocates for using the same toolkit—preparation, analysis, and strategy—in every conflict, no matter how minor it may seem, instead of defaulting to impulsive reactions.

The discussion then turns to emotions in conflict, with Aram posing a critical question about their dual nature. He asks how emotions like anger can both help and hinder conflict resolution and what advice Fred gives to mediators and negotiators in this context.

Fred identifies anger as the most prominent and potentially disruptive emotion in conflict situations. He acknowledges that while anger can sometimes catalyze positive change, more often, it leads to unproductive or even destructive outcomes. He references the work of John Gottman, a well-known family therapist, who introduced the concept of flooding. 

It’s a state of being emotionally overwhelmed, especially common among men, and it impairs rational thinking. Gottman’s early advice was to physically remove oneself from the situation—go for a run, work in the garage—before re-engaging.

However, Fred notes that more recent research supports a slightly different approach: rather than exerting energy or seeking distraction, it may be more effective for individuals to simply pause. He advises that if you’re experiencing intense anger during a conflict, it’s best not to proceed. Instead, recognize that you’re not at your most rational or effective and postpone the conversation until you regain emotional equilibrium.

Negotiation Mastery In The Age Of Virtual Platforms & AI

Moving forward, Nolan Martin asks Fred to reflect on how the expanding range of communication tools—text, email, Zoom, AI, and others—has influenced the pursuit of negotiation mastery and transformed mediation practices.

Fred responds by highlighting the significant transformations that have occurred, especially over the past few years.

He begins by focusing on the role of Zoom, which has revolutionized mediation since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. Before the pandemic, it was widely assumed that effective mediation required face-to-face interaction. However, the restrictions imposed by COVID forced practitioners to adapt, and many turned to Zoom as a solution. 

Contrary to initial skepticism, virtual mediation proved feasible and effective. Over time, participants became comfortable with the platform, and Zoom mediation became more accessible, removing physical and logistical barriers. Fred notes that today, most mediations conducted outside the courtroom now take place via Zoom, which is a dramatic shift in the field.

Fred then shifts to another technological evolution: artificial intelligence in negotiation. He points out that AI-assisted negotiation isn’t a brand-new concept; programs such as Adjusted Winner, CyberSettle, and SmartSettle have existed for some time and were developed to help streamline negotiation processes. 

However, recent developments in chatbot technology are pushing boundaries further. The central question now, Fred observes, is whether a chatbot can replace a human mediator.

He cites a notable example from Walmart, which implemented a chatbot-based negotiation system with suppliers in Canada. The results were positive—negotiations were successful, and suppliers responded favorably. 

This suggests that automated negotiation and mediation tools may become increasingly common, and according to Fred, there is no reason to fear this trend. Rather than replacing human professionals outright, these tools can enhance accessibility, efficiency, and consistency in conflict resolution.

Digital Dialogues & AI Empathy: A New Chapter In Negotiation Mastery

Fred continues his discussion on the evolution of mediation platforms by addressing Nolan’s question about whether moving from in-person to Zoom has impacted the effectiveness of mediation outcomes. Fred confidently states that there has been no observed reduction in participant satisfaction or the effectiveness of mediation conducted via Zoom. 

While formal settlement rates aren’t consistently tracked, he believes the shift has produced no measurable negative effects. In fact, many participants prefer online mediation due to its convenience and accessibility.

Adding to this point, Aram references a recent Wall Street Journal article that examined the performance of AI bots in empathetic conversations. Surprisingly, the study found that in some instances, participants felt AI bots were more empathetic than human counterparts. 

During chat-based interactions, people perceived the bots as being more focused on understanding the user’s problems, while human mediators were more prone to referencing their own experiences. This research suggests that AI is not only capable of conducting negotiations but may excel in emotional intelligence-like functions in certain contexts.

Fred acknowledges that while AI mediation has some shortcomings, none are so significant as to warrant fear or resistance. In fact, he is optimistic about continued improvements in AI tools and techniques. He also points out that China is leading the way in adopting technology for conflict resolution.

He describes an advanced program in China where individuals can handle the entire mediation process—filing, document submission, negotiation, and agreement drafting—entirely from their smartphones through an internet-based mediation platform.

Understanding Family Conflict: A Sign of Care, Not Dysfunction

The discussion then turns to one of the most emotionally charged and universally relevant domains of conflict: family relationships. Aram brings up Fred’s book Conflict and Communication, highlighting an entire chapter devoted to family conflict. He asks what makes conflict within families distinct and how the skills discussed throughout the episode can be applied in that context.

Fred responds by highlighting that the intensity of conflict often correlates with the closeness of the relationship. The more personally significant a relationship is, such as those within families, the more likely it is that conflicts will be emotionally charged and challenging. He encourages people to accept this as a natural dynamic, not a sign of dysfunction. 

Importantly, he reframes family conflict positively: conflict is a sign that we care. If we were indifferent to someone, we wouldn’t bother engaging in disagreement or attempting to resolve issues. Therefore, conflict within families is inevitable and a marker of meaningful connection.

The Hidden Strain Of Mediation: Ethics, Power & Walking Away

Nolan asks Fred to share a personal story of failure in negotiation or mediation. Rather than recounting a single incident, Fred reflects on a recurring challenge: power imbalances between parties.

He explains that his most difficult mediation experiences have involved significant disparities in power—especially when one side holds both financial advantage and unwavering confidence in their position. In such cases, the dominant party often engages in mediation superficially, with little intention to collaborate or compromise.

Fred shares that he has occasionally ended mediations when it became clear the weaker party couldn’t advocate for themselves. When self-determination—an essential tenet of mediation—is compromised, the process loses its integrity. This underscores the ethical duty mediators have to ensure fairness when power asymmetries exist.

He connects this issue to a broader societal reality: wealth and resource access often shape outcomes, even in formal legal systems. This reinforces the importance of preparation. Fred stresses that negotiators must understand their BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement) and WATNA (Worst Alternative) to avoid entering negotiations from a position of vulnerability.

Navigating Power Dynamics: Strategies For Influencing Upward With Insight & Impact

As the conversation draws to a close, Aram asks Fred an insightful question about “negotiating upward.” He wants to know how someone in a junior position can effectively influence someone in a higher position of authority. This discussion builds upon Fred’s earlier points about power imbalances and transitions into strategies for managing such dynamics constructively.

Fred begins by stressing the importance of recognizing power discrepancies and understanding their implications. Rather than diminishing or ignoring those differences, junior negotiators should acknowledge them, operate strategically, and aim to resolve differences before they escalate.

The key, he suggests, is to demonstrate to the more powerful party how your proposal benefits them. In essence, successful upward influence hinges on aligning your ideas with the goals, concerns, and incentives of those in authority.

Aram reinforces this point by highlighting the importance of speaking the language of leadership—understanding your superior’s needs, pressures, and motivations. Fred agrees, emphasizing that many good ideas fail not because they lack merit but because they aren’t effectively sold. Without successful persuasion, even the most promising proposals will go nowhere. The takeaway is that influence is just as vital as insight; ideas must be presented in a way that resonates with the listener’s priorities.

Fred, Aram, and Nolan discuss more on this episode of the NEGOTIATEx podcast. Write to us at team@negotiatex.com and share your thoughts on the episode. Also, we’d be thrilled if you rated us on Apple Podcasts to help us grow and improve.

Transcript

Nolan Martin :

Hey everyone, thanks for joining us on the NEGOTIATEx Podcast. We are continuing our conversation with Fred Jandt, negotiator, mediator, and educator. If you haven’t already checked out part A of the show, be sure to do that first. Let’s jump into the conversation with Fred.

NM :

Switching back to your book Conflict and Communication, could you share a bit about how common power dynamics and conflict styles affect a manager’s ability to resolve a situation, whether it’s with an external customer or an internal team member?

How Strategic Conflict Analysis Transformed Leadership At The California Department Of Transportation [00:30] 

Fred Jandt :

Sometime ago, I was privileged to be a consultant to, since you identified it in the introduction, but it was, Caltrans, California Department of Transportation. And that organization had a history of, let’s say, doing what it wanted to do. But the world changed and there were community groups that had agendas. There were environmental groups that had agendas. There were local transportation agencies that wanted new standards.

So in a world where they could no longer do exactly what they wanted, when they wanted, managers had to learn how to be cooperative with other groups. So I was involved in a multi-year training program for all mid-level managers in that organization, which is hundreds of people. The purpose of that training was to develop skills and negotiation skills so that the parties would be able to work with other groups to influence and create change.

So one thing that I did for them, which I think is a good way to begin, was to develop a scheme for analyzing conflict situations. So rather than when faced with a situation to act. The first step that I encouraged them to do was to analyze the situation and then plan their action. So for example, the steps, I won’t go through all the steps, but we talked about the context in which the conflict was occurring.

Who were all the parties, the political parties and organizational parties who was involved in the conflict, who were cooperating in the conflict, identifying the issues, then looking at the party’s demands and interests in the situation. Then began to look at how each party looked at social reality and how they wanted to resolve the conflict, how they, what skills they could bring to the conflict, what their beliefs about what the right way to do it were. 

How it involved outside interested parties, how to look at the power dynamics in the conflict, and then how to begin to look for settlement options that took all these factors into account.

I think what we did for those managers was to give them a way to systematically analyze potential conflict situations and to be creative in coming up with cooperative outcomes. 

Aram Donigian :

You know, it reminds me of we, Nolan and I have a colleague who will also say what you described about analyzing the situation we would agree with. Right. Good preparation. It’s Ready, Aim, Fire, but some people walk into 

FJ :

Fire. 

AD :

Yeah, right. Fire, Aim, Ready, or Fire, Ready, Aim, right? It’s taking that step back. How do you coach people to be patient when there’s this urgency or at least a perceived urgency to move? 

FJ :

What we would say to that is look at the probability of success. 

AD :

And that’s gonna drive it, right? I mean we can’t predict outcomes exactly, but I think you can look at success probability and say, which way are we gonna, you know, potentially have more success in this situation? Yeah, I mean, Nolan and I obviously both have a negotiation background, but military background, you know, big believers in preparation.

Teaching Leaders To Navigate Anger & Conflict With Patience, Preparation & Strategic Pause [03:39]

FJ :

I’d say this way, it happens that, it always amazes me that very sophisticated people in dealing with complex management situations sometimes don’t think about how to apply those same skills to the simplest conflicts. And I think what we’re saying is use those same skill sets to think about how you handle the conflict situation rather than going, let’s just say, to fire.

AD :

So you were talking, you mentioned, you know, one of the reasons these skills are critical is, you know, many organizations are creating change or experiencing change that can trigger some emotional responses. Emotions are part of conflict. Conflict is inevitable. So therefore emotions are, how can emotions be both helpful and hurtful in conflict resolution situations.

And what do you advise negotiators or mediators to think of when it comes to managing emotions?

FJ :

Well, the most typical emotion that we, of course we’re talking about is anger. And I think that is the one that we most wanna deal with and most wanna talk about. And of course, what you know, there is healthy anger, there is anger that can lead to productive change, but most anger in conflict situations leads not to good places.

So really how do you deal with anger that you feel in conflict situations? There was, you know, the marriage family therapist that became so well known, John Gottman used to talk about flooding, and that is that particularly men can become so flooded with emotions that they’re not able to deal rationally with conflicts that need to step away for a while and Gottman would talk about, well, it’s go for a run, work in the garage or something before you deal with a conflict in the family for particular. 

But some recent research suggests that that may not be the optimum way for most people, that it may simply be to take some quiet time, you know, rather than trying to attempt to deal with conflicts while you’re experiencing anger. More recent suggests that step away for a while. Just recognize that you’re not gonna be your most rational, your most productive when you’re angry. So don’t deal with it. Step away, postpone it. 

AD :

You said that’s what research says. In your experience, does that work well too? And what does stepping away look like? I mean, if Nolan and I are in the middle of a negotiation and all of a sudden I start to get a little angry, I mean, do I just call it for the day? Do we?

FJ :

Yeah.

AD :

Okay. 

FJ :

Because think about the consequences of escalating that anger. Doing analysis. Yeah. 

AD :

Back to probable outcomes, probability. Okay. 

NM :

Fred, we have more modalities by which to communicate now more than ever. How do you advise clients when it comes to effectively using text, email, zoom, AI, and so on with regard to negotiation or mediation situations?

How Zoom & AI Are Reshaping The Future Of Mediation & Negotiation [06:18] 

FJ :

It’s been really interesting what’s happened the past few years with. It was just assumed that almost all mediation had to be face-to-face. And with Covid, people didn’t know, how are we going to do mediation? We can’t do them anymore. So people began to try Zoom, and guess what happened? 

Today, more mediations are conducted in Zoom than face-to-face. It became more accessible to people as people became familiar with it. And the advantages are that really now most mediation outside of the courts is on Zoom, so that’s one change that just has happened in the past few years. That’s so interesting.

The thing now to watch for is artificial intelligence and the assisted negotiation program, so they have a long history. There’s been assisted negotiation programs for some time like Adjusted Winner and Cyber Settle and Smart Settle that helped people negotiate. The real interesting thing today, of course, is the use of chatbots. 

And the real question is, do we need a human mediator? Can a chatbot replace the human mediator? And there’s some interesting things that are happening. I’m sure you’re well aware that Walmart implemented a chatbot negotiation program with some suppliers in Canada, and they had good outcomes and the suppliers liked it. So I think we’re going to see a lot more automated negotiation and mediation, and I don’t think there’s anything we need to fear. 

NM :

Could you elaborate more on that? Because you know, removing the personal elements, you said that most of the mediations are happening on Zoom. Is it still effective? I mean the AI stuff, yes, it’s effective, but are you still seeing positive results and as much mediation success by them moving from Zoom instead of face-to-face?

How AI & Online Platforms Are Enhancing Mediation Outcomes [08:07]

FJ :

No reduction in satisfaction and no reduction in the, we don’t measure settlement rate, but I’m gonna artificially say that there’s been no negative effects. In fact, people that like online zoom mediation. 

AD :

I was gonna go even further and say a recent, I think this was past weekend edition of the Wall Street Journal, had an article in there about the role of AI bots, as you were talking about Fred being more effective and empathetic discussion than humans. 

And the research that was done was, I didn’t know which one I was talking to, but I felt that the, in one case it’s an AI bot and the other, it’s a human. We’re doing this via chat and people responded more favorably saying that the AI bot could practice empathetic conversational methods about understanding the problem. The human was more likely to talk about themselves.

FJ :

Obviously there are gonna be shortcomings. But it doesn’t appear to be anything that we should fear, you know, as we become better at it. Interestingly enough, China is much further advanced in this than we are as applying this to real life disputes for one program in China is their internet mediation program and people can actually file a case, submit documents, mediate, have the mediation agreement done all on their cell phones. 

AD :

And does it matter whether it’s transactional negotiations or something that’s a little bit more robust and sophisticated? At this point, it’s more transactional. So in your text conflict and collaboration, you devote an entire chapter to conflict with families.

I was shocked that conflict ever occurs within families. What is unique in your opinion about how conflict shows up within families? What can we apply from the skills and concepts that you’ve been sharing and discussing to better address issues that arise with spouses, partners, parents, children?

Conflict Means You Care: Bringing A Mediation Mindset Into Family Relationships [09:55]

FJ :

One thing I mentioned earlier was that the more personal and important the relationship is the likelihood that the conflict can be more intense. So I think it’s important for people to accept that families are the most important relationship we have, and potentially the conflicts there can be the most intense. We have to accept that, but also recognize this very important thing about conflict.

We only are in conflict with people we care about. If we didn’t care about them, we’d let it slide, right? So the conflict indicates our awareness and acceptance of the importance of that relationship. Last night I started a new mediation class for people wanting to be volunteer court mediators. But a typical thing in after mediation training is that the people tell me that even if they’re not gonna be volunteers, the class has helped ’em understand how to deal with conflict in their family.

So, I would again say here, like in organizations, I’m not saying that people become mediators, but I think the mediation mindset is something that we can use in our families.

AD :

Nolan, I won’t speak for you. I know my wife would like me to practice some of these things more than just talk about ’em. Fred, I won’t. Maybe I put you on the spot. I’m sure you master these in all your personal relationships too. Very easy to apply, right?

FJ :

Well, I often tell people it’s not always easy, but at least it’s possible. 

NM :

Yeah, I don’t know what you’re talking about, Aram. But mine’s perfect. Before we conclude, could we ask you to share a personal negotiation or mediation failure that you learned from an experience that you still apply today?

Why Self-Determination Matters In Mediation & Negotiation [11:31]

FJ :

I’m gonna broaden that question a little bit because I, rather than any one particular case, I’m gonna generalize into cases that have been problems. Okay. And without a doubt, in negotiation, are mediation. The situations would’ve been the most difficult when there’s been a significant imbalance of power between the parties in litigation and in mediation.

When one party believes they’re right and they have the money and the power, they’re not gonna want to mediate. If they do mediate, it’s just show. In some cases, I will stop a mediation when one party feels that they are in such a disadvantaged power situation, that they cannot really act in their own self-interest. Self-determination is not possible. 

You know, even in our courts today, we recognize that people with more money and more resources have an advantage. So it’s the discrepancy of power that is a problem, and that’s why I advise people going into mediation and negotiation always to assess, you know, the WATNA or the BATNA.

What is going to be the alternative? Do you have alternatives to entering into this negotiation? Maybe you should consider some alternatives before you begin the negotiation. At least always be aware of the alternatives to not settling. I find it kind of interesting today that both political parties are going back to the writings of Saul Alinsky, who was one of the interesting people in community activism and power.

And Alinsky always said that there are only two sources of power. Money and people, and I think the discrepancy in power has been the challenge in negotiation and mediation. 

AD :

So, Fred, let’s just build in one more moment on what you just shared in terms of those challenging circumstances. You know, I know a number of folks who need to negotiate upward, and we talked earlier about the skills of the manager to help mediate a situation maybe amongst subordinates. 

If I’m junior to you and I’m trying to influence you with a proposal or a project or whatever it might be, how can I do that most effectively? Really manage, like really be a good influence upward. There’s certain things I should just be practicing. 

Why Influence, Patience & Empathy Drive True Conflict Transformation [13:44]

FJ :

That’s a big question to answer. I think we’ve gotta begin with the recognition of the power discrepancy and understand what the possible consequences of that power discrepancy are. Does that make sense? 

AD :

Yeah. Say a little bit more. I mean that’s, I guess if you are senior to me, do I need to get you to acknowledge that there’s a power discrepancy, which is impacting our ability to converse?

FJ :

I think you can be smart and show the other party, the higher power party, how they are advantaged by your proposal. 

AD :

Speaking to their language, understanding their needs and concerns. 

FJ :

Show them the advantage to that. 

AD :

Which means a deep understanding. Going back to the relational component, there needs to be a deep understanding of you as my boss is concerns, what keeps you up at night and so forth.

FJ :

There are many wonderful, good ideas that don’t get adopted because those ideas aren’t sold and the question is. What is the value of a great idea unless you can sell it. 

AD :

I agree. That’s actually a starting point that I use for many of my classes, which is we build these skills around, analytical tools around marketing and finance and accounting to make wise, decisive decisions. And at the end of the day, if I can’t influence someone to action, it was all for naught. 

FJ :

A good idea is not worth anything unless it’s adopted. So what are you willing to do to move it forward? 

AD :

Well, Fred, thanks so much for joining us today. As we wrap up. Final question is, you know, do you have a final thought or challenge that you would like to, you know, send to our listeners who are seeking to become more persuasive influencers and more skilled conflict transformers?

FJ :

I think, as I said earlier, it’s not always easy, but it’s usually possible. 

AD :

Persistence, patience. I mean, I think in our most intensive conflict situations, they’re not easily solved immediately. 

FJ :

Correct. 

AD :

What’s the longest mediation you’ve ever been part of? 

FJ :

Oh, I think there are two factors there that on the surface is simple, but ended up being long, even though ’cause it was more complex. First thing that came to mind was a very simple mediation over a dog bite, a neighborhood dog bite. And this should have been handled in half an hour. It ended up being like eight hours, and it’s not the longest I’ve ever done, but this one was eight hours. And the story was a man was in his backyard with his three small children and his neighbor’s dog started coming under the fence.

So, he went to the fence and started pushing the dog back under the fence and the dog bit him. So he later sued his neighbor for medical costs, and that went to a court referred mediation to me. I expected this to be relatively simple. It ended up being quite complex because the story as it developed was the man went to the fence because he was afraid the dog was gonna hurt his small children.

That was his motivation. That’s what he was afraid for. But he had never met his next door neighbor. His next door neighbor was a retired couple with no children, and as they described it, that dog was their child and they were terrified that this man was going to take their child away from them. And that’s why they were so embittered in this dispute at the outcome was that they became neighbors.

They worked together to put in a better fence. They, the next, the elderly couple actually ended up helping the young man babysit during the day and mediation really adjusted their whole relationship and it took six hours. There was great intensity of emotion ’cause the elderly couple were terrified they were gonna lose their dog, which was their only child.

And it appeared on the surface to be so simple. It took about eight hours to get it done. 

NM :

Good mediation story to end on. 

AD :

It really is, yeah, it’s a nice example. The power of transformation. And thank you so much, Fred, for sharing your thoughts, your experiences, your texts that you’ve written on, and just encourage folks to go check out your blog site: mediatorfred.com.

Fred, thank you for taking the time to be with us today. 

FJ :

Hope that met your purpose.

NM :

It did. That is it for us on today’s podcast. If you haven’t already, please be sure to rate, review and subscribe to the NEGOTIATEx Podcast and we’ll see in the next episode.

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